bibliophile20 you mentioned that the Kyuubi was mentioned right in front of Hinata, when was this?

"Madara: So... They just kept standing there... glaring at each other... for how much time?

Zetsu: I think they kept there for 50 minutes. I CAN'T TELL, IT FELT LIKE HOURS.

Madara: Oh! Screw it! (he presses the fast forward button in the remote). Have I tell you how much I love modern technology? Seriously, in my times as leader of the Uchiha clan I had to endure watching this kind of things every time my subordinates practiced with their Sharingan genjutsu. It was boring with a capital letter, but these two? I really underestimated them. They have taken the boredom to a whole new level.

Zetsu: ...I WAS THE ONE RECORDING THIS, YOU KNOW?"

THIS SERIOUSLY MADE MY DAY ROTOLF you rock really maybe you shuld post this as a short comedy fanfic? it really got me laughing

Well, thank you Brilchan. I may do it actually



It happened during the third Sasuke retrieval arc:



I don't remember the exact number of the manga chapters. I think it was from 354 to 357.

And now we know the real reason behind the Uchiha massacre: they actually believed a staring contest is the highest level of combat.

another thing i hate is the idea of Itachi being a good guy ok i understend that it was needed for the plot that way Emosuke could get a MS whit out killing Naruto but c'mone Itachi was such a good Villan and now Kishi-sensei made him a saint he maybe moral gray but most ppl are puring soup on him i loved the idea of Itachi killing his family just to test his power and that he tournament his lil bro just to get a better set of eyeballs and i would LOVE to see sasuke a blind ninja having Oro as a sort of Biju i help that the great Autorlord ( ) will think of something a little different for the akatsuki's GenJutsu master

oh yeah who called it

Very good. You called a plot point for a major villian in a pre-teenager-audience comic strip. Your talent is proven.

the most recent display of deus ex machina...

I think it qualifies more as an Ass-Pull...

Or just generalized bad writing...

...

Never mind though, I think Chuckg and doc.exe pretty much summed up all that can be said about it in the main thread.

Well i would just day it's a Shone manga type of thing i don't love what Kishi did but it's fits the plot and has sense if you look at the big picture if you're bored of such plot devices maybe it's time you should start reading Senin manga? I read a few and they are a great cure for "sickness form plot - no jutsu" thing.

You can't (or at lest should not ) bass Naruto for moves like that its the same as bass criminals for solving mistress. I mean you can do it but why not pick a different genre inset?

That's why i like Team 8 Canon Naruto is afraid to kill will Naruto in Team 8 is an Assassin who kills to safe his life or Team mets and he manges ot get true the psychological hardship

That is the difference between a story for kids and younger teenagers (canon Naruto) and a highly developed and mature story witch a more complexed then the original ( Team 8 ) and both are good in their own way at lest i think they are

As doc.exe explained at length in the manga thread, the problem is not that this latest plot twist used shonen tropes, its that it used them with great clumsiness.

Granted, I personally was in the 'Just blow Pain's damn head off already' camp, but even if I wasn't I'd still have gotten the blind staggers at the sheer awful craptacularness of chapter 449.

thank you for the link will read it in a moment yeah Kisamoto did this one clumsy but it's not that bad and if Naruto would 'Just blow Pain's damn head off already' it wouldn't be Naruto anymore. Don't you think that would be out of character? IMHO clumsy Deus Ex machina is the lesser evil in this situation. Plus we got Kakashi back and he is the only "ninja like ninja " in Narutovers and i help that his talk witch White fang will make him more social so he can become the next Hokage(i can dream can't i ? )

The bit with Kakashi and his father should certainly put some of his demons to rest. The loss of his father shaped him, and even though Obito managed to change him, I always had the feeling that he was running from his past.

Then again, Sakumo was waiting twenty years to make his peace with his son. It will be interesting to see how Kakashi turns out with this.

CLEAR! *restarts the thread*

So many things came close most of which have already been stated but personally I lost all hope when Kisame died not only was it a horrible anticlimax that was only reached with some clumsy foreshadowing but it also proves that Kishi doesn't know where anything is in relation to each other or have any defined distance people just show up in places they need to be when they need to. It is the most blatant act of moving at the speed of plot in the series (not even the cameos by Tazuna and the little brat annoyed me this much) it wouldn't have been so bad maybe if the fight had started near the end of kagecon instead of oh the middle or so. My other real gripe is that was the last awesome villain left Oro-tan for as much as I hated the man and he always sent shivers down my spine was interesting now hes been Killed Off For Real. Another interesting character with his mysterious motivations past and goals was Kabuto who like so many others has been Brother Chuck'd off the face of the Narutoverse and probably won't be heard from again. Most of Akatsuki were one-note types and everyone else was an Uchiha but Kisame had an interesting appearance, was a sociopath and yet vaguely respectful at the same time he was strong and awesome all without being an Uchiha or falling into obvious villain traps he could have been awesome and I would have loved if Kishi had done more with him. But NO he gets no back-story outside of "was one of the seven swordsman of the mist" nothing about him is explained including why he looks like a shark an oddity even in the Naruto world and was ultimately felled in a manner unbefitting of someone so potentially awesome especially with the his final opponent being the memetic badass Killer Bee the whole thing felt mildly phoned in but his death was the act that stained the entire fight so it came out looking like the Uncharted series' "next gen filter" bonus fail for it being the death of the only remaining fight-capable non-Uchiha villain.

Yes I think that the kakshi & Sakumo walk down the memory lane in limbo was a missed moment of awesome but sadly that's a fault of the medium Kisamoto chose to show us his tale in a weekly shone fighting manga it is nearly Impossible to build up a logical pschological profile for you're character

That's because most of the reders would get bored before you would mange to do the basics and you're manga would be axed



Well Kabuto is being track by Anako and ANB Root since the Pain arc and I still hope that Oro will come back form Itachi's "Eternal Weed GenJutsu" and become something like a Byuu for Kabuto

It would be very ironic and in the thema of "New generation being above the old "

I think that I don't have a personal least favorite moment...it's been more of a slow decline than a single, sharp fall. I just miss the days where characters received adequate attention without being an Uchiha.

I have a dream! A dream that one day the characters of this manga will be judged not by the color of their stupidly overpowered eyes, but by the content of their...well, character, to be redundant. I personally find Shikamaru much more interesting than Sasuke, and he is only one of many minor characters. And he's better off than most--where is the TenTen or Shino development?

Well, to be fair, Kishi has said that Tenten was only created to round out Team Gai. She was always intended to be a filler character, so to speak. As far as I'm concerned, having such an open character is a bit of a boon to the fan community, since we can give her whatever characterization we want without it being "non-canon".

As for Shino, he just got shafted by the large cast size. There simply isn't time to fully flesh out all of the side characters when there's this many. Kishi really does need to focus on the main cast. Since the story is mostly told from Naruto's POV that means the people he cares about, in other words Team 7. Since he doesn't really interact with Team 8 all that much it's understandable that Shino's in the background.

Maybe we'll get a Gaiden for the rest of the teams?

IMO, one of the main reasons why the series became so popular in the first place was because of its big cast of colorful and well rounded characters. Even if you didn't like the main characters, there were others available that could get your sympathy. And let's face it: With the sole exception of Kakashi, no member of team 7 was really likeable at the beginning of the series. Sakura was an irritating fangirl, Sasuke an arrogant jerk and Naruto an obnoxious idiot. They only become likeable after they got character development.

Now, certainly managing such a big cast and giving proper development to every character is difficult, but not necessarily impossible. Kishimoto actually did it very well during the Chunin exam arc and the first Sasuke's retrieval arc. The fact that he decided to limit the focus on the other teams after the timeskip puzzles me. Specially because he actually had many chances to give them proper screentime but he wasted most of those opportunities. (For example, he skipped the fight between team Gail and their clones during the rescue of Gaara, as well as the fights with Shino and Kiba during Pain's invasion).

Certainly, the time constrains may be an obstacle but not if screentime is managed well, something that Kishimoto has not done in a long time. Let's face it: There were many moments during some of the Akatsuki battles (specially those with Sasuke) were the fight was not going anywhere. At times it felt that Kishimoto was padding to fullfill some unnoficial rule that dictated every fight of this type had to last for ten chapters or more. And let's not forget all the pages wasted on unnecessary flash backs. Had the mangaka refrained from these bad habits, things would be different now.

Finally, I'm willing to say the decision to limit the focus on the secondary characters eventually acted against the overall quality of the series. Specially because Sasuke ended as the sole focus of the plot, and he was turned into a really unlikeable character. This would have been compensated if at least the other two main characters (Naruto and Sakura) had been given proper character development, but they didn't. Sakura recently lost the strong status she gained after the timeskip, and Naruto... sigh... let's just say he became a yoyo alternating between awesome and lame. His increasing obsession with Sasuke... let's not talk about that

As to a gaiden for the rest of the teams... sigh... I believe the best we will get is more subpar filler for the anime . The worst part: This subpar filler actually does a better job developing the cast than the actual mangaka . Hinata, for example, got more time to shine in the Bikouchu arc than what she has had in the entire part II.

We can hope though

Hope is a four lettered word.

Does that phrase carry across cultures?

doc.exe you have some good points

I think the problem that Kisamoto has now is the vote polls in Shone Jump and pressure from his editors

Just look at the Pain arc Kishi had planes for Shino and Kiba to fight what probably happened is he got less votes and had to end that arc

Another thing please remember that Kishi is more focused on the polls and most of jump readers are teen boys who doesn't always appreciate good character development and Kisamoto isn't willing to take the risk

As for Sasuke I think that his character is being destroyed to invoke more hatred toward him

Aside from all that Kisamoto does have some problem witch his writing skills

But the lest few chapters gives me some help for the better

Mmm... Well, I suppose pressure from fans and editors may also factor into this. It may explain why certain parts feel so rushed. But we can't be sure how much.

As to Sasuke becoming unlikeable to reduce his popularity... That kind of strategies tend to backfire horribly (it's called misaimed fandom after all). And if that was the intention, why then he decided to destroy the characters of Naruto and Sakura in the process?



Errr.... May you explain that phrase for the poor Spanish speaker here?

Doesn't work for germany, at least not litteraly. But then we don't really have four letter words...

Hoffnung, that's german for hope. So doesn't translate well.